there's a social dynamic that's arisen over the last 20? years maybe wherein two acquaintances might find themselves at a conversation point where one asks the other "so, are there any musicians in your family?"
and then the other participant will either list off a sibling or two who played in band in school, maybe a parent who sings.
and then it's off to other topics, often, as I've seen it happen anyway.
so teaching each other music, and practicing music together, became part of social things, so that music could be shared. it's always been that way for sung music, but with the advent of the industrial revolution and some other economic changes it became easier for common folk to get inexpensive instruments. and they did - they loved it!
with the rise of consumerism and institutionalized learning and some other things, music started to become an add-on activity to life.
some people do music. other people don't, they just listen to music.
and everyone said "well, of course - some people just aren't good at music. they just aren't meant to be musicians! and that's okay!"
like I said, not all of my greats and grands were good at making music, but they did it.
some were - my aunt Minnie played church organ for fifty-some years without missing a single solitary week.
but it didn't matter either way - they learned because they did it together, they were shown and they practiced, not formally, just together as a family.
@djsundog I have very mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd love people to be more creative and have access to creation tools and so on (and I think it's amazing that music creation software is so plentiful and easy to learn now)
On the other hand, I'd like to see earning-a-living-wage become unnecessary before entire creative industries collapse under the weight of devaluation
@djsundog not that the music industry has ever been kind to people who have tried to make a living as a musician
@fluffy yeah, that's part of what I'm saying tho - there should be non-commercial music in folks' life. it should be something that's there without being tied to a market.
that won't cut down the demand for good music - great music - new music, all those things need to come from somewhere, and it's not randomly dispersed - you know all too well the work that goes into the extra stuff around widely polishing and distributing a professional creative work that can not only bring enjoyment to others but also keep food on the artists' tables.
@djsundog We, as a culture, have become very failure adverse.
There's this myth of being "good" at a thing, and that that somehow happens automatically, or not at all.
My grandfather is a world class piano player (and all around not great dude) but he's not a "natural" piano player. He's been playing nearly every day for 6 decades. He aught to be good by now.
“...simply moderate giftedness has been made worthless by the printing press and radio and television and satellites and all that. A moderately gifted person who would have been a community treasure a thousand years ago has to give up, has to go into some other line of work, since modern communications put him or her into daily competition with nothing but world's champions.... A moderately gifted person has to keep his or her gifts all bottled up until, in a manner of speaking, he or she gets drunk at a wedding and tap-dances on the coffee table like Fred Astaire or Ginger Rogers. We have a name for him or her. We call him or her an "exhibitionist." How do we reward such an exhibitionist? We say to him or her the next morning, "Wow! Were you ever drunk last night!”"
it was twain or vonnegut who left an impression on me long ago, saying something like the worst thing on the planet would be having to listen to the drama/tellings of random Russian princesses &c. just like, being subject to the drama/bs from all over.
@djsundog I'm listening to Mississippi John Hurt right now.
He's a moderately talented vocalist, and an okay guitar player.
He just plays folk blues.
Would he have learned to play had he been born 10 years later? 5?
@djsundog and the same thing could basically be said about most prominent blues musicians, and a fair number of folk and country performers.
You played because you played, the fact that people paid for it was a bonus (and an anomaly)
Permission to copy-paste this thread (with link and attribution) on my blog? This is golden.
@djsundog nice ramble, thank :) as I understand it, this sort of culture still survives in Ireland. And I note in lots of black gospel communities etc too. But it's definitely been mostly lost in England where I am.
@jdaviescoates 🙇 there are definitely communities - and large ones! - that are in a healthier spot than my viewpoint here in USia. they're the strongest communities around imo - that's part of how. long traditions of constant education and knowledge sharing, rather than control and commodification. a society cannot focus on both, really. not that I can think of an example of, anyway.
@djsundog I met a chap here in England whose family were all involved in gospel music. He said he wasn't good at singing and playing piano, but then he played. He was excellent (he was comparing himself to his musical family, I was comparing him to most people). Anyways, the reason I mention him is we're FB friends and he posts videos of e.g. black gospel families all singing together at home. I don't dig all the God stuff, but such videos leaving me longing for such everyday musical culture.
@jdaviescoates I grew up as a preacher's kid, so that was a big part of music in my early life too. I'm not involved with any church any more, and yeah, the musical void that left made me reconsider re-joining a church if only for the regular social music opportunities.
@djsundog outside of my complaints of similar things as a musician, i and also hav the vibe that i cant play/music around roommates/family
theres both insecurity and also years of being told to stop practicing because "i dont want to hear that"
like fuck what they want to hear i have to practice and im sorry that the activity isnt less invasive
when i lived in hippie jam pads in 2014-2015 i was given that chance to exp music as a SOCIAL activity and not merely an academic or consumer activity
@djsundog i read in your thread the term "apprentice" and thats a word i had missed and needed, so thank you for bringing this to my attention
bender was my mentor for busking and music (2015)
the dallas palace for better or worse was collectively my mentor for music (2014)
im at a point that even after 2-3 years of not playing trombone and uke, that i can pick them up and play them because thats how MUCH i was playing them
they became an extension of my being
@DrSagan that's exactly how important environment is to the whole thing, and I'm super happy you found better ones along the way (and hope you find yet more new ones in the future)
@djsundog fast forward to december 2019 when i formally (and this time with meaning) joined the SCP Wiki
i had tried joining two other times, but deleted my account within a week because something felt off, i didnt feel i was mature or tactful enough for the site, and also not ready to make a commitment of being apart of the community (outside of reading)
ive read the site for a total of 12 years, 10 of those years w/o being on the site proper
and 8 of THOSE years in cali
@djsundog Creating music is probably easier on a technically level than it was ever before, but IMO this also leads to the opposite problem, where people feel uncomfortable making the first steps when they are constantly surrounded by extremely professional and technically complex music
It'd be similarly hard to motivate yourself to learn to paint when there's a Picasso on every corner
@elomatreb yeah, this is totally a thing too! but it's kinda like saying "cars are cool, I think I'd like to check out how to work on cars" and having someone say "okay, here's a set of professional tools and a garage. mess around a bit, watch some youtube videos if you get stuck."
our messaging, our teaching, needs fixing, badly.
@djsundog tbf, that's basically how my brother is teaching himself :P He's a year into his apprenticeship as a motorcycle mechanic and he has probably replaced every part on his bike twice
But I get what you mean. Teaching music is hard, when we did music theory in class I was extremely bored but when I tried to do some music on the computer I would have really liked to remember some of it, and looking such things up yourself is pretty hard
@elomatreb yeah, that's the magic word - apprenticeship. apprentices are supposed to have mentors, not only answering questions or assigning tasks, but leading the apprentice through the knowledge space and making sure they learn their way around and feel at home. youtube videos and software tutorials don't do that for everyone. there needs to be more, but we regularly abandon more personal modes of knowledge transfer because it's too hard or expensive or individualized, and that's crap lol.
Your chart is ready, and can be found here:
Things may have changed since I started compiling that, and some things may have been inaccessible.
The chart will eventually be deleted, so if you'd like to keep it, make sure you download a copy.
in England (a small country) older people need to chill out a bit about neighbourhood noise; young people often *do* want to make music but they fear being grassed up to the Police or other authorities when practising (especially electronic music or DJ sets), also there are fewer venues to play at due to paranoia over alcohol and drugs use...
@djsundog my parents, bless their hearts, taught me everything they knew about musicmaking and storytelling, the same way they taught me about emotional intelligence and interpersonal connection:
namely, how to make do without, and which pursuits were More Important Anyway.
it’s been a long road uphill since then, but my family and I have been getting better.
@djsundog I'm starting to see STEAM (where A = Arts) being bandied about more often. It'll be awhile before that takes hold though.
@djsundog it's odd to hear this since I only had the barest bits of music taught to me as a kid (nearly all of it outside school) but both my kids will be carrying instrument cases to school every day when the normal schedule starts up here next week as part of their required classes.
I don't doubt what you're saying is true on a wider scale but my personal experience is the exact opposite.
@technomancy it's def locally spacetime specific, for sure, and many communities have put work into reversing/mitigating some of the effects - I'm glad your kids are getting the advantage of some of that! I can use more healing in the world ;)
the district we're in does pretty well still with music education & extracurriculars too but a) we are packing a ton of socioeconomic privilege but also b) even then the squeeze is on, the state limits the size of our budget increases but doesn't give us our fair share blah blah blah
@djsundog When I was in grade school (early 90s) we were all taught the recorder.
In some of us that sparked an interest in joining the municipal public school of music and performing arts (it's an after-school thing which all municipalities in Norway are required to have).
I'm so happy that's still a thing, even though some municipalities are quick to slash their budgets to a minimum.
@djsundog My great-grandfather played cello (on a casual/hobbyist basis AFAIK), my grampa played organ --for himself, not for church-- and a bit of ukulele as a younger man. His brother played plectrum banjo. My mom played piano and violin, and remembers family get togethers where her dad and uncle would play organ and banjo and everyone would sing.
When we'd visit my grandparents at Christmas, grampa would play carols and we would sing along, and I'm still mad at my tween dumbass self for rolling my eyes about it instead of realizing how incredibly special it was.
If you can find the right bunch of old-time musicians (by which I mean, musicians of any age playing "old-time" music) you can get pretty close to the "people making music together for the sheer joy of it" vibe. It's so easily poisoned by people playing "more authentically old-timey than thou" games, whether in terms of repertoire, techinque, instrument, etc.
@djsundog my great grandmother did music lessons, she had a harp and an organ herself, but she'd teach you any instrument... right after teaching herself, if she hadn't already crammed for a prior student
@djsundog I think about how the eternal grind of capitalism and worker exploitation has had a major hand in this. When you’re in deep debt just going to University, you’re not so likely to pick up music, which requires an investment of time and money. When you have to work until you drop, where’s the time to play music?
@s0 that's a huge part of it too - would be illuminating to see the graph of the decline in support for "citizen arts" and the rise of the term "work-life balance"
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